Sharing thoughts with Franco Debenedetti

Born in 1933 in Turin, Franco Debenedetti has a degree in electrical engineering. He started working in the metal tubing company founded by his father, and later became manager at Fiat and Olivetti before entering politics. First elected a senator in 1994 with the liberal Alleanza Democratica, he was re-elected with the progressive Olive Tree coalition in 1996 and again in May 2001; in the Senate he sits in the group of the largest opposition party, the Democratic Left.

Q: Do you think the current position of the lib-lab faction of the Democratic Left, within the party and the center-left coalition, is one of strength or weakness?
A: It’s a position of strength as far as a strategy to bring the center-left back to power is concerned; one of weakness if we count our votes in the daily political battle, not – I am convinced – if we count those in the ballots.

Q: The faction gives off the impression of being in the background of the current debate on the liberalization of the labor market. Is this the wrong impression?
A: Our “no” to the Refounded Communists’ referendum on Article 18 [to extend legislation banning firing without just cause to all companies regardless of their size] is very firm. We have said why it would be bad for the country were it to pass. In order to make it clear, we want the centre-left to support a bill to make the referendum unnecessary. Even if Parliament it is not likely to pass it: Berlusconi intends to exploit the opportunity to divide the opposition.

Q: Former CGIL leader Sergio Cofferati often says that the labor market in Italy has been liberalized enough already. Do you agree?
A: The labor market in Italy works really badly. I think Cofferati can only agree with this. And if it doesn’t work, then something should be done about it. And I think it is the job of the left to do it.

Q: What do you think are the problems of the Italian labor market?
A: A market works badly if it doesn’t successfully match demand and supply. This is what happens in the italian labour market: in the South we have shameful percentages of unemployed youths, in the North we have to let immigrants fill vacancies; we have a huge black market, particularly in southern Italy. And, worst of all, Italy has the highest rate of long-term unemployment in Europe: this is a plague, since it is a prelude to poverty.

Q: You are a former manager. Do you think employees always have a right to keep their jobs no matter what? Even if a business doesn’t need them anymore or if they are not very productive?
A: I’m going to answer from my direct experience. I was a manager at Olivetti for 15 years. During that period, the company went through a transition from electromechanic to electronic machinery. The number of employees, their type of expertise required changed drastically. The amount of time and energy spent to keep them working, and to fill empty factories were huge. If those energies had been focused entirely on the company’s future, the destiny of Olivetti might have been different. However, I am not advocating the “hire and fire” system which does not belong to our culture and would damage the cohesion of our social fabric. Large businesses should invest in retraining their employees for new positions, in their own and the collective’s best interests.

Q: How has your entrepreneurial background shaped your political profile?
A: A politician needs to have a completely different point of view from that of an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs draw an imaginary circle around their company: inside there is “we”, and outside it’s “them”, customers and competitors. For a politician, an outside world doesn’t exist – everything belongs inside the circle. Clearly, an entrepreneurial experience is helpful: it is useful for a politician, for example, to be able to read a balance sheet, to understand business. However, this fits into the cultural baggage each one of us brings along. Overall, I agree with [Democratic Left Chairman Massimo] D’Alema when he says that politics is an intellectual activity. And a complex one, for that, more so than being an entrepreneur.

Q: What makes you a man of the left? To cite filmmaker Nanni Moretti, what have you done in your life that is of a leftist nature?
A: Mine is a family of entrepreneurs. I’ve been, among other things, a manager at Fiat, where I was at the head of a unit of some 45,000 employees, and at Olivetti. But this is only part of who I am. There are intellectual affinities, with people and with books. I consider myself a member of the center-left. Formally I became a member of the Democratic Left at the latest party’s congress [in November 2001]. But with your question you are hinting, provocatively, at my ideas about the economy, or about foreign politics, which some consider much too far to the right. I spoke out my ideas loud and clear in my election campaigns. The votes I got helped bringi the progressive Olive Tree coalition to power in 1996: this was my leftist act. It’s rather I who ask Moretti what he did that was leftist: the polls confirm what I have always believed, that the girotondi* citizens’ movement he is sponsoring is not gaining support in the electorate at large, and therefore is pushing the left away from a future in government.

Q: Today, as in the past, the left is accused of being too close to the Palestinian cause and not sensitive enough to Israel’s security needs. Do you agree?
A: Italy has been predominantly more sympathetic to the Palestinians, not just the left, but also prominent Catholic politicians. However today we are not serving the cause of peace if we don’t stress the Palestinians’ shortcomings, notably Arafat’s inability to control terrorism. Since September 2000, Israel has faced incredible losses, and it is clear that coming out of this impasse through politics is extremely hard. The problem- albeit not the only one, of course – is that one doesn’t see yet a Palestinian leader who is able to control his people, stop terrorism and help bring peace in the region.

Q: What is your position on the prospect of a war on Iraq?
A: I think Atlanticism is a key value in Europe, and therefore the risk of a Europe divided over this value is very harmful. Europe shouldn’t hide behind its huge military weakness. The war on terrorism implies a new vision of danger and requires responding to it in appropriate ways: some of those followed by the Bush administration we find objectionable and dangerous. We must contribute to helping the USA design an effective strategy against terrorism: but we can do it successfully only if it is clear beyond any doubt where we stand. Blair is helping the cause of international justice much more than someone like Schroeder, who took a pacifist stance for mere electoral purposes.

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